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often giving up hope of ever improving as you watch other people have interesting “normal” lives without you. Yet this doesn’t have to happen.The NYU Training Program for Psychedelic Psychotherapy – Jeffrey Guss
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This is Shira Schuster, who is soon to be a Ph.D. and has been my co-instructor in the course for this year and has been a tremendous help and creative force in putting the training program together. So there are three core aspects to the training program: a one-year mentorship with one of the three investigators in the study, Steve Ross, Tony Bossis, or myself, a didactic series and work with two study subjects. This is the schedule with which we began last year. It unfortunately, was blown to bits by Hurricane Sandy, but by about February we started to recover and get back on track to all the papers that we wanted to discuss, and I’m going to talk about the didactic first. I don’t have all of the didactic papers here summarized, but just a few of them. We start with this fabulous paper by Matt, Johnson and Bill Richards, and Roland Griffiths on the safety and basic medical knowledge of psychedelics. This paper covers what ten other papers would be needed to convey the information about who is eligible, and who shouldn’t be taken into treatment. What are the risks? What are the basic techniques? It’s a great paper and offered a tremendous amount of information in a quick, ah, not a quick, but in a concise way to people who were going through training. The next is a wonderful article by Alison Witte, no relation to Stephen who’s organizing our conference today. This is a paper that I found in a journal on holistic nursing. She worked with nurses, who had worked with people who were seriously ill in Eastern Kentucky in Appalachia, and she looked at who had spontaneous mystical experiences while they were in the hospital and what contexts led to their arising. What nurses did that facilitated people being able to have mystical experiences being able to talk about them and what kinds of things the nurses learned about? How to help the person utilize that mystical experience in their life afterward? She also, interestingly, talked about the impact on the nurse that was doing the listening and participating in the creation of this shared experience. So this is a really useful article, nothing to do with psychedelics, but is really about how you occasion a mystical experience. What do you do that enhances the likelihood of that happening? We did some historical papers looking at LSD, assisted psychotherapy, and the human encounter with death by Bill, Richards Stan Grof, and others, and Pahnke’s groundbreaking article on the transcendental mystical experience in the human encounter with death. We studied contemporary scholarship in psychedelic research, Roland Griffiths et al 39, s paper on Psilocybin, occasioning, and mystical experiences, and we took a crash course in Yalom and Frankl by studying this paper by Bill. Breitbart Psychotherapeutic Interventions at the End of Life, A Focus on Meaning and Spirituality. So here I think you’re hearing again the ongoing theme of the establishment of meaning as a core process, that we encourage our therapists to bring to people in the study, So that’s the didactic series. If you want a copy of it, I’d be happy to send it to you by email. The next part I want to describe is the mentorship program. The mentorship program is defined as just that, and not as supervision. We used the idea of supervision at first but decided that mentorship is better for several reasons. A mentor is more of a guide, a friend, and a supporter. There’s more equality in a mentoring relationship than in a supervisory relationship, And since all of the people that are trainees in our program are fully trained therapists, we felt that they were enhancing or developing or extending their skills rather than learning something from scratch. So we use the term mentorship. Also, there’s a certain amount of teaching that comes back the other way that can be quite profound, and I’ll tell you a little bit more about that later. The mentorship relationship is confidential. The mentor doesn’t say anything and holds the material found in the mentorship sessions, with equal confidentiality to what you would hear in therapy. The intention of the mentorship is an integration of all aspects of the experience. The trainee is encouraged to discover new aspects of himself or herself and others through the relationship. In other words, How does my existing identity as a therapist change grow to transform? What do I leave away? What do I do more of? How am I changed in this experience? In learning how to work with psychedelic therapies And a core part of the mentorship is dyad training. Now, when you work with two study subjects, which is a third part of the program, you work with your mentor for at least one of the sessions, So each therapy team each therapy dyad – has to do dyad training And the dyad training, which I’m, going To tell you about in a second is the central part of the mentorship relationship at the beginning, So you meet for these six two hour sessions, doing dyad training and by that time usually, you’ve gotten started working with your first patient, Your first participant So At that point, you’re doing clinical work. You’re talking about what’s going on. You’re talking about what’s happening in the reading, But the dyad training is a central way that the mentor and the trainee get to know each other. The dyad sessions occur six. There are six of them, They’re about one to one and a half hours, and only the therapists are present, so it’s a group of two and what happens in there also is confidential. Each session has a defined theme, even though you’re encouraged to do free-flowing discussion and talk about anything that arises that you think is going to be relevant to working together as a dyad team, And we used to have supervision after the third and sixth Sessions, but I think that’s pretty much fallen by the wayside, So the goal is the establishment of a close relationship. If you’re going to be a dyad team, you have to know one another as therapists. You have to understand how somebody thinks about life, death suffering, and when I first picked this picture, I thought that it was just kind of cutesy, but I realized that one of the times I’ve, given this talk before that there, something quite similar Between this tin can string telephone and that’s that you either are listening or speaking and to change, you have to change your position And the dyad sessions occur in the same way when you’re speaking, a person is expected to say what They have to say to describe their experience and the other person listens. It’s, not a therapy session. You’re not expected to ask questions to deepen the experience, But it’s a practice of a certain kind of meditation. Listening The first session early memories and contemporary experiences of death and losses, Family members, pets, friends, and patients that have died, Each person is invited to talk about their life from their earliest memories to the present time of what death and mourning has been like for them. This is also the time to talk about early memories of awareness of your mortality and thoughts and feelings about your death and the death of loved ones. The second dyad session is an invitation to talk about profound, mystical, or spiritual experiences, including experiences with entheogens. So confidentiality is also a part of the protection of this because speaking openly about entheogenic experiences or psychedelic use in a context like this brings about certain kinds of ethical and legal anxiety in people. So only with confidentiality, I think, are people free to speak openly about what they’ve done, what they’ve, not done, what it has meant to them, and the part of them that they’re going to bring to their dyad work, which is The work with the participant that relates to their own experience or lack of experience with entheogens. They can speak about their experience as a sitter and as a guide with shamans or guides or meditation teachers that they might have had. And this allows a basic kind of groundwork to be established between the dyad, as they’re, getting ready to sit with someone who’s going to enter into a state which is rather unpredictable in terms of what they’re going to be confronted with. Holding The third session involves looking at pain and suffering in family members, friends, and patients and experiences with cancer or other terminal conditions, including experiences in working with patients who are disfigured and whose bodies are failing, and the impact that this has ten minutes. Okay, so session. Four near-death experiences Session, five audience laughter beliefs regarding heaven and hell and religious history Session, six extreme states in psychotherapy, but actually by session six, everybody’s pretty much done and we’ve talked about everything there is to talk about So that’s, The one-year mentorship and I’m – going to skip over that and talk about the study and what happens during the sessions. So I presented this slide before, but I’m going to go over it again. You’ve got three prep sessions. A dosing session, three more sessions, a dosing session, and then three more So there are nine therapy sessions and two dosing sessions. The three preparatory sessions: this is the study room. This is what it looks like. This is a model pretending to be in session and the first prep session. So during the first prep session, it’s divided into two parts: there’s education to the participant regarding goals, the purpose of the study, time tables expectations, and education regarding the range of possible effects of the medication side, effects, rescue medications that we have On board what we’re going to do to try to help them through a difficult experience, and after that, then we do a history during which we take a psychosocial history, in particular a cancer narrative. We talk about family relationships, hobbies, work, political, social, and religious affiliations, the experience with psychedelics, meditation practice, and anything that you would want to do to get to know somebody and develop a trusting relationship with them. The second session is a life review. In this, we do a rather structured exercise, which I’ll show you an example of in just a minute, but you go over much of the same material you go over where you were born growing up where you went to school when your dad transferred to Another state: what happened when your grandmother died? You know if you had to go into the service like whatever these important turning points are in your life. We talk about them literally on a timeline and examine the meaning of those events in the individual’s life to see how their life has come to have meaning how events were made, the meaning of how catastrophe or disappointment or anger or exaltation moments were Given meaning and came to structure the way their life worked, In particular in the life review, we look at the cancer narrative, which has to do with how you reacted to the diagnosis, what the diagnosis meant and the relationship between cancer spirituality and how the individual found, Meaning So this is a life review exercise on the left hand, the side you can see birth about two-thirds of the way across you can see. Now this is a man in his late forties and on the very right-hand, side. He writes his death, So you can see between birth and now there’s. Many many events and I’ll give you a closeup in just a minute and about halfway through. You can see that he didn’t leave enough space, which is like the proportion wasn’t right. So he wrote a little. U going down to write in some more information, And this is a close-up of what he wrote At the bottom. He wrote his regrets loss of friends. He had to care for his mother when he had pneumonia. He was mean to Scott when he was a kid and did well in school and became a quarterback. All of these were things that he felt were important and just getting this information writing it here and taking this time was a profound experience for him each person that we work with says You know I’ve never done anything like this before and It’s quite illuminating to have these memories sought in this relatively structured way, And then the third is taking a spiritual history. To take the spiritual history, we use these two mnemonics, HOPE and FICA, and I’m gon na skip over this because I’m running out of time. But these you know information about these is easily available online, The spiritual history. What are your beliefs More about the spiritual history more about the spiritual history, The dosing sessions? Now I’m not going to say a great deal about the dosing sessions, because what we do is not vastly different than what is written about quite extensively. How do we handle people in various kinds of situations, what do we expect, what do we invite them to do, and how do we handle crises? This is quite extensively covered by many many people and what we do. Isn’t different from it. We have headphones with music. The therapists take a supportive role and respond actively if necessary. We have an opening ritual that focuses on internal direction and immersion in the inner experience. The therapists are invited to watch, listen and be attuned and very careful. Listening to the first post-journey, narrative, usually around two or three, the person sits up, takes off their headphones and eyeshades, and starts talking about what they’ve been through, and this first narration of the experience is quite important, and listening to it Carefully, I think, sets the ground for how you’re gon na work with it in subsequent sessions. Then you have a closing ritual So the integration sessions. These are the least well-defined part of the process, and they vary considerably from one dyad team to another, and while there is an effort in academic research to have uniformity and to have a manualized approach to things, I think that these integration sessions are a place Where it’s going to be quite a challenge to do this, because what the person brings, what happened to them in their session and who the therapists are and the bond that they’ve tied the bond that they’ve made. The tie that’s happened among the three of them is going to define what happens in the integration sessions So again making meaning of a psychedelic experience and incorporating that meaning into one 39. S perspective on yourself and in the world is an essential part of what we’re trying to do Now. This is Reverend Mike Young, and this is a slide that I didn’t know about this quote, and it was Cody Swift. That turned me on to this wonderful quote, and this is in some ways the idealized experience in which the ego, which is constructed by memory and determines what we think under Psilocybin. You transcend this ego. It’s not who I am, and the loss of self is not as distressing as it was before. So this is kind of the idealized experience and this is a picture actually of Marsh Chapel, where the Good Friday experiment happened, and people praying in that very same chapel. But not everybody has this full experience. Some people have a much more biographical experience and I don’t think I’ve read a description of what you need to do better than what came forward quite recently in this lovely small monograph by Torsten Passie. Describing what kinds of things can happen in a session – and I don’t think that much of what’s here is going to be new to anyone here, so I’m not going to go through this in the interest of time and again. Well, one point that I wanted to make about this is that Sometimes you hear you know when people are talking about Katherine MacLean’s report on openness that 14 months later, openness was found to be increased by a single psychopharmacological event, And when that phrase is Used it reduces the experience to the drug itself and I think that the mystical experience is sometimes seen as kind of like the magic that brings about some kind of transformation without being contextualized in a certain kind of therapeutic process. And I’d like to suggest that it really isn’t quite this way and that, even when a full mystical experience occurs, the way that it is held, the way that it is worked with the way that it is applied and connected to the individual.’s, life is very much a part of a therapeutic process that occurs So what have we learned from working with our trainees? This came out of a discussion that I had with Steve Ross and Tony Bossis a month ago, and I’ve got nine points that I want na make and that will bring me to the end of my talk. For today. There is a complex relationship between spiritual states, the cancer narrative, and experience with altered states. Now we hear these words – and these words are said a lot, but sitting with people and trying to figure out what their cancer narrative means to them, what their life meant and how life has meaning, how cancer affected the meaning in life and the relationship of Those two to this one psychedelic experience: these are like bridges that need to be made and they need to be made actively Just sitting back and saying. So what was it for? You are not going to bring about a very powerful connection unless it’s. Already happened So this complex relationship, I think, has much to be found and discovered about it, but it’s quite important. Secondly, that there’s a great variety in the way that spiritual distress and existential anxiety present themselves In general, the greater the mystical experience, the less active integration is needed. So this is what you know. Some of our mentors have felt that when there’s a more full mystical experience, the integration sort of happens on its own or kind of happens. Naturally, When it’s less and there’s more of a biographical or psychodynamic, then more dynamic work is needed. Number four involvement, as a therapist in a study, brings about deep personal changes in the relationship to cancer, death, and therapeutic stance. For me, this had to do with facing patients who were dying and talking about dying. Looking at my feelings about death, illness, pain, cancer pain, and my mother,’s, death from cancer. All of this got activated in me and I realized how much I had been living. You know once or twice removed from these very deep existential issues, because when you work with addictions, you’re almost always working with somebody who’s going to have a new birth and a new life in sobriety, and there’s much of a hopeful Perspective so this reduction in lifespan and the threat of dying from cancer brought about a change for me. On the other hand, I work in my therapy dyad with somebody who’s been working in cancer care for 15 years, and her attunement to defenses denial around cancer, anxiety, diagnosis, anxiety. The way that somebody hears or doesn’t hear information that they’ve got is very, very refined for her imagining this new technique. This new way of helping a certain kind of suffering that she was so familiar with was quite different for her. It is like What is a psychedelic experience for this particular patient, going to do for this very familiar form of cancer care that she’s done? Number five – and you know this – is like beating a dead horse. The centrality of the construction of meaning healing existential anxiety due to cancer. Core processes that were necessary for the therapist are the cultivation of authentic presence, meditative attention, and balance between overactivity and overinvolvement, usually caused by anxiety in the therapist or detachment, which can be caused by an overvaluation of a certain kind of calm or a certain kind of meditative Observation when a more engaged or forward-leaning approach might be helpful and the skills helpful in bringing about a mystical experience Each therapist’s. The trajectory is embedded in his or her past and path and there’s a great value. When you’re doing short-term therapy like this, to know how to work with patients to know about transference and countertransference and skill about what to open up what to leave closed, how to work with things that emerge how to work with crises that arrive, how To handle the subtle and important things, that you might not recognize, or you might not notice, if you weren’t well trained there’s a great deal of value in being a well trained, therapist And number nine. The unquestioned value of personal experience with entheogens in working with integrative sessions, especially in working with difficult passages during dosing sessions. So I’m going, to sum up with two slides, So I want to talk about the goals of the training program. There are two sets of goals: One is the goals for the therapist, so you know the goals that go in, and the other is goals that go out. The goal of the training program for therapists is to develop the capacity to support spiritual and mystical experiences in the subject and to relate these to illness and mortality and existential anxiety So to conduct short-term therapy, work that integrates spiritual experiences and facilitates psycholytic work. So these are a lot of words to encapsulate what I think is the core task of what we’re trying to do, and that is to be both psychedelic therapists and psycholytic therapists and short-term dynamic, psychotherapists. The therapist’s goal is to become safe, skilled, and knowledgeable in all aspects of the process, meaning patient selection, patient preparation handling the session, and whatever occurs in the psychedelic session and the integration that happens afterward, whether that’s three or six sessions or For several years, which can occur, you know one of the people who were in our research study stayed in treatment with her dyad for several years, because it was just clinically the best thing to do So being able to know when to do what is a very important part of adding this kind of technique to your work And, lastly, to support each therapist’s, talent, maturity and individuality and to practice therapy that is creative, adventuresome and unknowing. And by that I mean where the therapist is comfortable with not knowing what’s going to happen, not knowing what should happen but having an open mind and an open heart to be ready to respond to what does happen And the external or the far-reaching Goals for the training program: these are out for the community First to define a training process and evaluate its effectiveness in an ongoing way. So we had to develop a training program before or you know, without any training ourselves and without actually having done very much psychedelic psychotherapy in this particular context. So we sort of hit the ground running and now by the third round of training, and we’ve done twenty-five subjects in the study. I’m starting to have some preliminary ideas about what’s effective in training. What’s important? What’s not so important, So creating a training process was an essential part of what I was trying to do, and to do this, I just started with one that I thought up and did and said: Okay, how is this working? What’s important and what’s not The next is to provide education and normalization of psychedelic discourse within the highly traditional medical setting. So in this study, the information goes out to departments of psychiatry departments of oncology. We have a journal club, the PGY 4 39. S sometimes comes to our lectures and the fellows in addiction, psychiatry, and in other fellowships, are invited to attend. So there’s a place where psychedelic medicine is being taught and talked about, and when we go to the cancer center. We talk about this. So, even though only twenty-five people have enrolled in our study and received dosing, hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of people in the NYU area have heard about the study and are seeing psychedelic medicines being taken seriously and being studied in a rigorously academic way. Thereby creating a conversation for reintroducing these agents into our discourse. The third is to prepare the needs for a Phase III study in which we would be doing two or three or even four hundred subjects in the study. So we’d need a lot of therapists for that and third to establish at least one model for a post-rescheduling world. In other words, if we were going to have Psilocybin offered as a form of therapy and therapists were going to offer it, how will they be trained? What will that therapy look like? How will we know when someone’s a good psychedelic therapist and somebody’s not pulling their weight or not doing a good job, And with that we’ll bring it to the end. Thank you very much.As found on YouTubeHUMAN SYNTHESYS STUDIO 👀🗯 Attention: Have Real Human Spokespeople In Your Videos Saying Exactly What You Want In MINUTES! REAL Humans, REAL Voices, With A NEW Technology That Gives STUNNING Results Choose Your Human + Voice Type What You Want Them To Say Render your “Humatar” What You Are About To See Is Unbelievable…How to Release Fears and Traumas with Hypnosis
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And therapy isn’t the cure-all. It’s great for a bunch of things but sometimes you need other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, like, the way I see it is to attack it from every angle. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. There’s no reason not to bring in everyone who could help. Yeah Perfect. So, uh I’m just going back to um you know, how you got into hypnosis and you talked about, you know, self-hypnosis and I’m sure that that has helped you and I mean, it’s helped me. I think it can help a lot of people where they can just utilize this modality, get over, get over some fears maybe, you know. Absolutely. I’m curious how, how you do self-hypnosis and what’s worked for you. So, that’s changed recently Longest time I did it as we were trained. And uh one of the things I’ve started to focus on recently. my self-hypnosis work and with my clients is nostalgia. This weird thing that exists in our minds seems to be separate from everything else. And what I do to self-hypnotize now is II focus on one of my far-off memories. Like one of my distant distant nostalgic childhood memories. Now form that as solidly as I can and just start doing breathing exercises. And focusing on that nostalgic moment and gets me right into a trance every time. Interesting. And do you think that would work with other intellectual suggestions? You know, high E note? Uh, I have clients that nostalgia has started to become a major part of our work. Because, um, I don’t even know how to define it. It doesn’t exist in a space like other memory. It’s it’s different. It’s more intense. It’s standard memory. It doesn’t have that feeling that’s associated with it. And I don’t know what that feeling is. Um actually, that’s one of the things that I want to focus on the most with research as that’s what nostalgia is and what its uses are about hypnosis. Yeah. Um and it’s, I’ve already started using it with a few clients, this notion of focusing on intense nostalgia to facilitate trance and I’ve had very good effects. Yeah. Well, that’s that reminds me of Erickson and I’m sure you know his story by the way, for people that are watching that and not familiar with Eric’s uh Milton Erickson, he was one of the greatest hypnotherapy of all time and did very indirect, artfully, vague, lots of metaphors and stories and god just brilliant results as a genius and um you know, when he was younger, he had polio, couldn’t move, thought about a memory of when he could and then all of a sudden 30 minutes later, he found himself Maybe. Well, that’s why a lot of the clients that I’m working with nostalgia are my clients that have self-perception issues and self-confidence issues Because nostalgia exists in a point of pure happiness. You don’t have negative nostalgic memories. Really? And yeah. This nostalgia by its very definition is positive. Huh, and it’s it may or may or may not be true because memory sucks but it doesn’t matter because your perception of that memory is nothing but positive. Nothing but happy. And so by recalling these memories, you’re able to recall this happiness. Uh, one of the more interesting bits of homework. That I’ve given my clients is uh sometime between now and our next session. Go on YouTube and look up an hour of old commercials or old cartoon intros from your childhood or something Like that. Um. Cartoon Network. Yeah. Something. I’ve uh I spent like 2 hours one night just watching intros to cartoons from the nineties. Like that’s it. And I’ve kind of become very focused on it. I very much love that sensation of nostalgia. I think it’s important therapeutically. That’s kind of why I put so much effort into exploring it myself. Yeah. Uh, Anytime I have like a nostalgic memory or thought, I kind of try to capture that and examine it and like figure out what I could do to bring myself back to that time and just that ponder ance alone has a hypnotic effect And I don’t know what it is about where nostalgia exists in the memory. it’s its present. there is an odd field of science. That’s kind of coming up now. That’s the quantum sciences. And there are some individuals doing work right now. or up to it including hypnosis that are fascinating. Um, the main person I’m speaking about is this guy named Doctor Dean Raiden who is the head of the Institute of Noetic Sciences. And yep I heard of them. Uh, he wrote a book called Real Magic. That is the scientific research and analysis behind certain processes. Like ESP whatever have you. Um, and it’s done strictly from the view of science and research. And These things are related to hypnosis because if the institute can be said to have any goal or direction, it’s consciousness research. Why? What are we? Why are we? I kind of think. Yeah. And the book doesn’t answer any of those questions but this book does provide uh an interesting indication of the direction of science and what we’re looking at in the next twenty years. One of the most fascinating things uh about living in this time certainly isn’t the plague or climate death but uh there is a concept called the singularity and there’s a version that exists in AI and there’s a version that just exists as humanity and the idea of the singularity in terms of humanity. Are that human technological eras exponential? That to get from the bronze age, the iron age was like two 2,000 years from the iron age to the industrial age like a thousand. Industrial age. It only lasts two hundred. Then, you get to the point now that the internet age only lasts twenty years. So. Oh, we’re not, are we, Oh yeah, you’re right. Uh-huh? I was just trying to think like, well, yeah. And. Previous to that, the computer age only lasted like fifty And so, now we are approaching this point in human evolution and development that um progress. The human era can no longer be measured. That each human technological era begins to overlap itself. And that progress became becomes foreseeable by the organic mind. we have a date for that. And it’s twenty-forty-five. Uh between twenty forty-five, 2055 is when the singularity is supposed to occur. And what? So what is that what is that mean exactly? That means human technological progress becomes infinitely fast. Every day there are new technological breakthroughs. Every day there is more progress. Um. How does even determine this state? Do you know? Well. I don’t know. Smarter men than me have done this math. Yeah. But it’s you see it evident in human evolution. These cuz there’s there were times in our history when thousands and thousands of years were spent the same. centuries were spent the same. There was no real development. It was just kind of an age. Living in the era that we live in now, it becomes very difficult to conceive of that. Because even if you’ve been around for twenty years, you’ve seen insane amounts of progress. And that simply just didn’t happen. Previously. Right. Ever since the industrial age for better or worse, we’ve sprinted towards this exponential progress, and as to what singularity looks like, oh no. Uh, I surely just hope it’s not a new iPhone a day. Uh, I’m hoping it’s not the AI, you know, um. Oh, god. Take me over the world and. The matrix. I uh. I’m kind of opposed to AI. Kinda not. Because to get AI, we have to first solve the consciousness problem, and we solve the consciousness problem. Good luck. That pretty much unlocked the singularity right there. But at the same time okay, let’s say if we unlock consciousness, let’s say we’ve created an artificial intelligence. We have created a thinking, feeling machine. The feeling of what? How do you know that consciousness implies emotion? What, how do you know what that emotion is? Right. Right. It’s defining consciousness. Mm-hmm. Which is the tricky part. So, and then one of the interesting questions I’ve, it’s been posed to me is does emotion evolve? Are we more emotionally intelligent now than we were 500 years ago? You gotta remember 500 years ago, what was considered fun was watching the local heretic gutted in the public square. So, I have to think that, yeah, we have grown. I, I do think we’ve owned in some ways, and at the same time, you know, there’s always going to be some kind of watching people get, you know, it’ll be a violent movie. Um. Yeah. Yeah. US, UFC, you know, we I mean II remember. Yeah. I don’t know how old you are but. I’m almost forty. There was a show on in the 90s called America’s Funniest Home Videos. That’s right. And it was hosted by Bob Saggett for some reason. And uh there used to be a rule. But it first came out. That no one could get hurt. And the video. It was an explicit rule. What? no1 could be injured. Yes. Well and then the dude getting hit in the nuts by a football One 3 years in a row. And they realized their entertainment value. Exactly. Cuz when I watched it, it was like 80% of people getting hurt. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And uh that’s an interesting aspect of humanity that to my knowledge, only the Germans have attempted to quantify. Uh, they have a word called uh Shodden Freuda. Which basically if I remember right, translates to the sad joy. And it is the pleasure that you get from other people’s pain. It is you who laugh at someone falling downstairs. It’s the reason you laugh at anything like that. Though the Germans have a word for it. It is Yeah. It exists Universally. And that is the very reason that um that that things like America’s funniest home videos or **** exist. Yeah. And it has to be II wonder really what is it psychologically that makes us like that? Is it a survival aspect of that ain’t me? Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know. Well because one of the weird questions I’ve never heard answered is uh why do we laugh? Like what even is laughter? Right. What is humor? Yeah. Uh-huh. and um because it wouldn’t exist for no reason. Laughter has to have a function the most interesting notion that I’ve heard is it was made as a diffused mechanism. The whole idea of why we find humor or awkwardness humorous. Because of like let’s say you were walking around the pack way back in the day. And you heard the Bush’s Russell. And everyone gets scared. You see the rabbit jumps out, so you laugh. And that signal which creates a neurological response in any human that hears it Is a way to signal the all clear. And maybe it’s a way to signal that hey that wasn’t me that just slammed into a **** curve on a bicycle or something like that. Like I don’t know what that is. I don’t define what humor is or why we laugh, to begin with. Right. Difficult question. And then you make it even more complex by the fact that some animals laugh. Really? Uh. Huh. Rats will laugh. Horses will laugh. Um, horses have displayed complex humor. Rats will laugh. Rats, you could tickle a rat. It’ll laugh. Giggle. That is so strange. Wow. They’re hyper-intelligent. Um, A horse. There’s some search horse prank on YouTube and you will get nothing but videos of horses taking revenge on people and laughing about it or playing a prank on their handler or something. it’s pretty. That’s always been the strangest thing to me because that implies very complex emotional intelligence to have humor. Yeah. Well, we’ve strayed. This is a very interesting topic for sure, man. Philosophical, psychological, like cultural, uh what’s called anthropology, anthropological questions. Um kinda tying it back to hypnosis. Well, I mean and you were talking about singularity and consciousness. Was that, were you going somewhere that in terms of hypnosis? Who knows? Um well, probably where I was going with that. Um if not, where I’m going now is that what we do is going if it’s not already it is going to become vital to consciousness research and what it means to have that type of increased development that we can analyze ourselves and others in ways that we haven’t been able to in the past. I’ve heard some theories that the notion of metaprogramming. Being able to actively change our thoughts and behaviors is uh an evolutionary step that is not something we’ve always had. That this ability to change everything about ourselves to suit our purposes is evolutionary. And I will take that one step further one of the things that I propose in many of my interviews is we don’t have free will. If everything of what we do is a product of association and learned behavior. How is that in any way an expression of choice? Now where free will comes in is when you choose to alter that behavior to suit your life when you choose how you want to view something. When you choose how you wanna act and react to something. Right, but aren’t those also dictated by past programming, by culture, um your knowns, so to speak? Yeah. You know. Could be. But it is the conscious choice of say if you have anxiety and you wish to resolve it. That is a conscious choice. Um. Right. Another example of a guess is if you don’t like a certain food, well, it stops. Like it. But you can’t. Okay, well, what if you could make that choice? What if you could just choose to make a certain food or like reading or like something in particular? What if your association was different? And that’s where the change comes in. That’s where the choice comes in. At least I think. That’s just uh the logical quandary that I like to present to people. Yeah. You know, this whole free-will discussion, man. That’s above my pay grade. I do mean on most days, I lean towards, you know, there probably is in free will but What I will say is I think it’s important for us to believe that there’s free will even if there’s not. Just to function in society and for mental health and yeah. Um, there are a lot of things like that that you don’t have time to get into today but it exists for you. You just have to play along to function. The biggest landmine in thought projects I could think of is simulation theory. Because you can neither prove it nor disprove it. So you could just continually fall that rabbit hole. So what is simulation The idea that we live in a simulation? Okay yeah, the matrix. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah. There is no way to prove it. There’s no way to disprove it. Yup. And I have no couple of people that fell far down that hole. Yeah. So, now, this is not a lot of quantum physicists, okay? And obviously, I’m not anywhere near that realm and intelligence but from what I’ve heard and read and understand as a layman is that there is an interpretation that will lead to us being in a simulation, there are some quantum physicists who would say that, and um. Uh, who’s the deal? That it is. Yeah. Statistically more likely that we’re in a simulation than not. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. And it the singularity comes into that because it assumes that any civilization that gains enough technology to run a simulation will do so simply to gather information and that given our technological progress, it is more likely that we have reached that point and we are in a simulation, then, it is not. So, wait, maybe the similarities are just when our when our holes pop open and we all get to come to to play in the real world. You know what? I think this ties nicely into hypnosis. Yeah. Okay. Because our beliefs, our core beliefs, a lot of them, are just BS. Yeah. It’s all perception. Reality is perception and as hypnotists, we can help you change that perception. Yeah, I don’t know if you, if you’ve been part of like a stage hypnotist show, hypnosis show? No, I’m opposed to stage hypnosis. What? Uh. It’s something I’ve to develop and like, yeah, I get that reaction a lot but speaking to clients and speaking to podcasters doing interviews, Stage Hypnosis is responsible for 90% of the misconceptions and falsehoods about hypnosis. And I could say To me, hypnosis and hypnotherapy is a very, very, very powerful tool and it needs to be regarded as such and if we’re up on stage using what is supposed to be a powerful tool to make people stand on their head, that doesn’t allow people to view it with the, the gravity that they should because, to them, it becomes this, this parlor trick this and more than that, I’ve encountered people who’ve had negative experiences with stage hypnotists. Uh because of what they’ve experienced on stage, they would never get hypnotized again. I’ve thought about that a lot. Would I ever do stage work? And I think at this point, the answer is no. Uh, I would do parlor work within a small setting like Transing one person in front of a small group just as a demonstration. That’s fine but doing it as a spectacle in front of a crowd. I think personally, this is only my opinion that it robs hypnosis of some of the dignity that it deserves. Hm. And I understand why it exists cuz yeah, it’s a neat thing But like, given how important I feel that hypnosis is to, in the understanding of it is to our health. Did damages its capacity to do so, by it being a stage show. Here, here’s my kind of argument. Um, because if show somebody that, you know, hey, I can make you bark like a dog, cluck like a chicken, uh via the power of hypnosis. Imagine what it’ll do therapeutically. Imagine how easy it is for you to quit smoking or lose weight or you know. How many are to go to anxiety? Going to be convinced with that versus how many people are going to be convinced that it’s fake or that? Yeah, I know I get a process or that it’s mind control. Yeah. And that’s the contribution to the negativity that comes in. And the media doesn’t help because every time you see a movie where hypnosis is involved outside of uh black magic, that one movie from the forties. Um, it’s all **** Like it’s all just weird. if that’s not actually how that works. But it makes people believe it. That’s why you ask someone to imagine what a hypnotist is. The first thing they think is that. Yeah. I have one somewhere. Hey, it’s a legit induction man. It works. I know. That’s the whole reason I dug mine out is because like man if I’m a hypnotist I wanna trans someone with a pocket watch. Exactly. That’s why I got it too. Just for that. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. Oh, I feel like this might be a good stopping point, man. It’s been a fun conversation. I don’t know if there’s anything that you. Yeah, man. Thank you for coming on and um uh is there anything maybe you wanna end with before um you know, ask you how people can find you and work with you? Um well, one of the things I always like to end with, you’ve already mentioned that hypnosis is natural. It’s normal. It’s not a metaphysical thing that this is a natural function of the human mind and that there’s no reason not to utilize it for positive change. It’s there anyway. We’re not adding anything. So, it’s something that I believe anyone can benefit from But if anyone wants to get a hold of me, uh like I was so enthusiastically introduced, my name is Jay Robert Parker. I own Twin Ravens Hypnotherapy and Research LLC and you can get a hold of me through my website at WWW dot Ravens dot ORG. Very nice. And you are doing group hypnotherapy as well. Oh, yes. Um I, if you go to a meetup, uh meetup .com and search for twin ravens hypnotherapy. I have a bi-weekly group hypnosis that I’m starting up. Uh, just kind of as an experiment, see how well it catches on but it’s just uh every other week, just doing some general relaxation, motivation, just basic stuff, and way. Anyone that wants to be able to experience hypnosis gets the opportunity. It’s not the same as one-on-one but your results may vary. Some people get a very profound experience. Some people likely do but you always get something. You let them know what it is. Yeah. And awesome. Great talking to you man. Absolutely. And I just wanna vouch for Robert’s skill and his compassion and passion in this work cuz I’ve been in one of those group uh hypnotherapy sessions. And it was very powerful. So I recommend anyone who wants to experience the power of hypnosis, to change their lives, to go with, to with Robert and you’re in good hands. So, thank you, man. Thank you for coming on. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Alright. Peace out, guys.As found on YouTubeHUMAN SYNTHESYS STUDIO 👀🗯 Attention: Have Real Human Spokespeople In Your Videos Saying Exactly What You Want In MINUTES! REAL Humans, REAL Voices, With A NEW Technology That Gives STUNNING Results Choose Your Human + Voice Type What You Want Them To Say Render your “Humatar” What You Are About To See Is Unbelievable…How Does Exposure Work For Anxiety? Habituation vs Inhibitory Learning (Podcast Ep 226)
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After and in that book, I wrote about the story that you tell yourself and everybody else after the challenge is over. The last thing I’m going to talk about is that it’s an openness to accept the outcome of the exposure based on the fear of disaster not happening rather than how you felt like this is where you hear me say again and again, and it Sounds cruel and it sounds cold and it sounds all of those things. But when I tell you that I don’t care how it felt, I only care what happened That’s, where I am like begging you to see that. I know that it was hard And I know that you were terrified. I know that you thought you were going to die And I know that it felt like you were going to go insane, But you are now here an hour or a day, or a week later telling me that story Because none of those things happened So it’s so important to be open to the lesson that the exposure teaches us, which is that surprise. The thing that you are terrified of will happen. Doesn’t happen That’s so important. Now, if you’re listening to me, you may say, but the bad thing is the anxiety I get And for some people, it’s, not that the anxiety signals a danger because, for most of the community, it’s. Well, I’m terrified to panic, because when I panic, I think I’m going to die or think I’m gon na go insane Or I’m going to pass out or I’m going to have a psychotic break For other people. It’s just No. I don’t think that I’m just afraid of the panic itself, Because the panic itself tells me that I’m failing, I’m weak. I’m broken. I’m less than I can’t. Do this, this shouldn’t be happening, But even if that’s the way, you fear it and you don’t fear, death or passing out or a heart attack. In the end, the panic came and left, And again nothing bad happened. That does not show that you are broken or weak or less than at all. So you’re going to have to begin to accept that lesson that, like oh look, I did that again. I tolerated it again Instead of saying it was wrong for happening knowing I did a great job getting through it, So it’s so important to be open to the lesson that the experience teaches you other than just recounting the experience as a nightmare and something That you never want to happen again. That is so important And it’s why we say all the time we do. Don’t care how it felt we only care about what happened. We only care what happened So that kind of gives you. You know. 25 minutes on the difference between habituation and inhibitory learning and a rough idea of how that fits into exposure work, And I hope near the end here is how you can start to gear. Your exposure and recovery work to take advantage of the inhibitory learning model and not just try to get used to anxiety or make it go away. The key takeaway here is: am I doing these hard things to try to make it go away, Or am I doing these hard things to learn that I can do hard things and it doesn’t matter? If I get anxious that’s, really where you want to be That’s, where I want you to be, I want you there. I know that you’re trying to make it go away. We all want it to go away, But I say all the time go away is a happy secondary effect. It’s a secondary outcome. It’s a happy secondary outcome of learning that you’re. Okay, even if you do panic So please, if you take anything out of this episode, take that you should not be approaching recovery as a way to feel better and make it stop. You should be approaching recovery as a way to learn that it’s. Okay, even if you do get anxious and panic because when you get there and know that you can handle it, no matter where you are or what the situation is, then it starts to go away And it goes away more durably. It goes away across context. You don’t have to worry about like well. I can go to restaurants, but I haven’t gone to the movies yet So I got to do six months where the movie exposure to be able to go. No, you know that I’m okay if I panic in a restaurant, so I’m okay if I panic in the movies It’s, there’s magic in there. There is So that is my 2627 minutes on habituation and inhibitory learning and the mechanics of exposure. Hopefully, it has been helpful. I’ve been looking forward to doing this episode to be completely honest with you, And it was going to be super geeky at first. But I’m pretty proud of the fact that I didn’t get too deep into the technical woods here And I hope that I’ve been able to present it in a way that’s understandable and relatable. More than anything else. More than anything else, So that’s it We are done. This is episode 226 In the book. You know it’s over because of the music, that is Afterglow by Ben Drake. That is a song you hear at the beginning and end of every one of these podcast episodes. If you’d like to hear the whole song or know more about Ben and his music, you can visit his website at Ben Drake, music com. If you’re listening to this podcast on Spotify or iTunes, or some platform that lets you rate and review, the podcast leaves a five-star rating and maybe writes a quick review. If you dig it because it helps other people find the podcast. If you’re watching on YouTube subscribe to my channel, like the video leave a comment, I circle back every few days to interact on YouTube. So if you want to ask the question, I promise I’m gon na see it And I think that’s it Thanks for coming by. I appreciate your support. To find all of my other resources and goodies at the anxious truth com. I will be back again next week with another podcast episode. I don’t know what I’m going to talk about, but I will be here and remember until then. This is the way Unknown. Yeah, you’re doing fine story begins. You got a feeling that you go As found on YouTubeHUMAN SYNTHESYS STUDIO 👀🗯 Attention: Have Real Human Spokespeople In Your Videos Saying Exactly What You Want In MINUTES! REAL Humans, REAL Voices, With A NEW Technology That Gives STUNNING Results Choose Your Human + Voice Type What You Want Them To Say Render your “Humatar” What You Are About To See Is Unbelievable…